PRESIDENT: Well, I'm trying to figure out with 
Ehrlichman what the strategy should be on 
this, uh, Watergate (unintelligible) the 
real problem here. 
HALDEMAN: I think John is pretty much out of touch as 
I am, now.  We kind of stayed away from it. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible).  He has a feeling which of 
course is mine, too, and, uh, I believe it. 
(Pause) Trouble is... 
HALDEMAN: ...that's the key, if we could just - 
PRESIDENT: Dean and Haldeman, Moore is but you can't 
find any way to have any kind of a statement 
made (unintelligible) that they think 
doesn't open up too many other problems.  Of 
course, they're concerned about what will 
happen when the Judge sentences. 
(Unintelligible) well - 
HALDEMAN: Sentencing is that this week? 
PRESIDENT: Right. 
HALDEMAN: Right. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: That's the thing, there's just so goddamned 
many factors and (unintelligible) people. 
PRESIDENT: And that's what Dean - 
HALDEMAN: Sure. 
PRESIDENT: McCord didn't want to go to jail 
(unintelligible) jail sentence 
(unintelligible) decided to talk.  I said, 
"What the hell's he doing? (Pause) 
HALDEMAN: McCord?  (Pause) He would have a lot on 
Mitchell.  (unintelligible) 
PRESIDENT: He worked for Mitchell? I guess Mitchell and 
(unintelligible) are trying mess with Grand 
Jury (unintelligible) (Pause) U.S. Attorney 
- (unintelligible) (Pause)
PRESIDENT: Kleindienst always talks so very tough. 
(Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: You sure of that? 
PRESIDENT: He and Mitchell sure weren't very strong 
(unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: That's kind of ironic when his own, his own 
U.S. Attorney comes back to bug him. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  (Pause) I told John one thing which I 
am convinced of, we've got to get somethings 
that have got to be said (unintelligible) 
around there.  Something that has got to be 
said.  (Unintelligible) you can't sit in 
there thinking everybody down here is 
shutting up.  (unintelligible) That's the 
precedent I'm afraid (unintelligible). 
Don't you think that's true to the 
circumstances? 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) terribly sensitive about 
the goddamned thing. 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) 
PRESIDENT: We ought to do something (unintelligible). 
The question is what - (unintelligible) tell 
your own people. 
HALDEMAN: You've got to answer to people 
PRESIDENT: Say that they don't want to... 
HALDEMAN: Does Dean feel we can't do that even to our 
own people? Well, yeah, you can't because 
then if they go out and say that's all there 
is then one more thing comes, then you're, 
you're even more sunk. 
PRESIDENT: Well, I'm not so sure. 
HALDEMAN: At least that's what's worried John all 
along.  How do you get... 
PRESIDENT: That's what worries me more.  But, I'm not so sure that wh 
rest.  I didn't do this, I didn't do that, 
da da da da, da da da da, da da da da, da da 
da da.  Haldeman didn't do this, Ehrlichman 
didn't do that.  Colson didn't do that. 
(Unintelligible) see?  That's what I really 
think needs to be --, uh, they need to hear
it from somebody that basically that's what 
- they've got to know that I have been told 
that, that's really what it gets down to. 
Rather than let the feeling, the uneasy 
feeling that somehow maybe the White House 
staff is keeping things from me that I don't 
know or something we're afraid to have the 
people talk about.  Well, isn't that really 
all there is (unintelligible) we don't want 
to talk about up there, but the god-damned 
Klieg lights.  It isn't that we are afraid 
of facts, we certainly are afraid of 
publicity. 
HALDEMAN: Well, I guess you've gone through that mess. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: Well, you know - go back to that... 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligble) 
HALDEMAN: I guess we have and it would be pretty bad 
because of the way - (pause) everybody wants 
to go. 
(Pause) 
PRESIDENT: When that decision was made you know 
(unintelligible) But I certainly didn't want 
to keep it all up there (unintelligible) 
daily spectacle with television cameras and 
press. 
HALDEMAN: But you're gonna have that daily spectacle 
PRESIDENT: I think you are (unintelligible) I think you 
are, maybe the point is that makes the 
papers that we've got a big fish up there. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: They say that's what made the McCarthy 
hearings. 
HALDEMAN: And you never know what any of the big fish 
will do when they get up there and then we 
all said we want to go up and all that, but 
if they lob one in you're not expecting - 
you don't know what -how good a witness 
he'll be. 
PRESIDENT: It's a tough goddamned thing - 
(unintelligible)
HALDEMAN: ...when you get... 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) goddamned thing.  That's 
right. 
HALDEMAN: And then when you get (unintelligible) 
PRESIDENT: You don't, there's a thing Mat I'm frankly 
concerned about more than I am about what 
they might reveal in this version.  I don't 
want (unintelligible) get up there in front 
of that goddamned committee and gear their 
question on the log out of somewhere they 
know something. 
HALDEMAN: Well, see the thing is... 
PRESIDENT: the perjury hit. 
HALDEMAN: I know, yeah, but see, they're protecting 
the wrong people. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: ...'cause think people who are gonna go for 
perjury already have and will do it again 
and are going to be up there anyway. 
PRESIDENT: You mean like Magruder? 
HALDEMAN: Well, I guess Magruder comes under your, 
your new current executive privilege rules. 
He was on the White House staff, too. 
PRESIDENT: Magruder was? 
HALDEMAN: Well, not at the time of the incident. 
That's right.  So, so, that doesn't count - 
you know.  That's right. 
PRESIDENT: That son-of-a-bitch. 
HALDEMAN: No, he wasn't.  He was, he was over the 
Committee and he was White House at one 
point, but obviously he can't exercise 
privilege on -- 
PRESIDENT: ...after he leaves, 
PRESIDENT after he leaves while he was here 
AND HALDEMAN: (unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: So that would cover Chapin, who would not 
cover Magruder.  Cover Colson, who would not 
cover Howard Hunt.  (Pause) Cover Dean, who 
would not cover Liddy.  (Unintelligible) 
(Pause)
PRESIDENT: Our position... (Pause) 
HALDEMAN: Well the other, uh, would cover Strachan. 
I know they're concerned about Strachan. 
(Unintelligible) 
(20 second pause) 
PRESIDENT: You see I wondered whether - just as well 
(unintelligible) beware (Pause). 
HALDEMAN: You see, the problem with Strachan - they're 
worried about Strachan getting - getting 
into the White House.  I don't think that's 
a problem because -Strachan has no, as I 
understand it, no criminal thing.  Because 
he wasn't directing it, he was simply aware 
of what was going on.  But if he doesn't 
perjure himself and he has to answer on 
awareness -he can't take the 5th because he 
doesn't have any incrimination.  He, he does 
have a problem, be-cause I think he knows 
wh- what happened over there.  That's where 
he gets into trouble. 
PRESIDENT: But hasn't he already been questioned? 
HALDEMAN: Yeah, but but, I don't think he answered - 
he forgot, and Strachan, from what Dean told 
me, Strachan said he just didn't know that. 
He wasn't very well questioned and he's only 
been questioned by the FBI and they, they 
only questioned him on Segretti. 
PRESIDENT: Wonder why they're question, questioning him 
at all.  I don't understand. 
HALDEMAN: Well, it never occurred to him, I don't 
think and I'm not sure it ever would, unless 
someone accidentally asked him a question. 
I'm not sure how much he knows about 
Watergate anyway, but from what Dean tells 
me, I think he knew a fair amount.  'Cause I 
think he knew - see, Strachan's job was to 
know, was to keep on top of everything that 
was going on. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  Then Magruder knows that's the point 
(unin-telligible) who would tell that 
Strachan knew that's what I mean. 
HALDEMAN: Magruder might tell what Strachan knew - 
yeah, - but only that he knew...
PRESIDENT: That's right. 
HALDEMAN: Not that he had no authority - no, no - 
uh... 
PRESIDENT: ...participation... 
HALDEMAN: participation . - He was an observer. 
(Pause) The danger you got there is that he 
probably, and I possibly, got reports on 
some of that stuff. 
PRESIDENT: Sure.  I'm aware of that. 
HALDEMAN: And if I did, I didn't know it.  But 
Strachan did know because he gave me, - you 
know, stuff that thick and I never looked at 
it.  On all campaigns, budgets, personnel 
things and everything else. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) Dean say he's discovered 
for us, of course, he didn't know what the 
hell they were about.  (Unintelligible) The 
main thing is don't get anybody up there on 
perjury where they can prove and sentence. 
(unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: Strachan? I don't think (unintelligible) 
what Strachan'll do is,he may go on contempt 
but not perjury.  Contempt on refusal to 
remember. 
PRESIDENT: I don't think, he doesn't go at all. 
HALDEMAN: He goes on inability to remember. 
PRESIDENT: Well, he doesn't perjury charge, perjury 
charge unless they charge him with a crime. 
Then he has to go down.  Anybody who's 
charged with a crime has to go down.  That's 
the Ad, Adams' question. 
HALDEMAN: Well, if that's the case, why the hell 
didn't they charge everybody with a crime 
on, on complicity or something. 
PRESIDENT: Can't do it.  Won't stand up.  (Pause) Just 
make a, just making a charge is not enough-- 
What I meant is - 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: I think it has to be... 
HALDEMAN: Be indicted (unintelligible).
PRESIDENT: ...evidence, get some evidence that ah, 
er... 
(Pause) 
HALDEMAN: God it's ridiculous. 
PRESIDENT: Oh!  God!  It really does.  (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: The irony and the stupidity of that whole 
thing is... 
PRESIDENT: But also, the credibility of, uh, stuff in 
the of, uh, with a double standard. 
HALDEMAN: I know. 
PRESIDENT: It's hard to believe, uh - I've just given 
up.  I mean Colson was telling me that we've 
got all sorts of stuff on the Democratic - 
(unintelligible) not a God damned thing - 
not a thing (unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: Really? 
PRESIDENT: That's right. 
HALDEMAN: Well does Chuck's - I guess Chuck's talked 
with Dean (unintelligible) John Dean - Chuck 
thinks he has. 
PRESIDENT: Well, you know what I mean, stuff like that. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: Unintelligible) you would think that when 
they were doing all their stuff at the 
conventions and demonstrations.  Christ 
even, Christ even the FBI shout have 
investigated that.  Ziegler says 
(unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: They didn't - didn't - did not.  It was done 
on their behalf, but not at their direction 
and they can probably... 
(20 second pause) 
PRESIDENT: When you talk to Henry, let's put it in the 
negative.  I will simply say that I had 
mentioned the fact that you and I - that you 
would raise a point (unintelligible) 
significant risk we have to weigh (20 second 
unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: He'll probably feel that we can't talk.
PRESIDENT: Is that right? Horse-feathers.  So he told 
you he should take a vacation. 
HALDEMAN: Oh, yeah.  Every goddamned word end the way 
that he did - you know - never even, uh, 
crossed my mind to raise any question with 
you because it was - he did it in such a way 
that I - you know if you had said - if you 
had told him that you wanted to take time, 
said get a vacation - (noise) - wanted to 
get away from the Democrats and I think he 
did mention - the idea of going to Acapulco 
(unintelligible) maybe at that point.  I'll 
be darned. 
PRESIDENT: I know I didn't.  I know I didn't.  I 
thought he was thinking of California.  But 
I, - he planned that he was going to stay 
out there and I said, "That's great.  That's 
a good time to spend a couple of weeks." 
Palm Springs. 
HALDEMAN: Well, you're right, because that's what I 
thought he was gonna do. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) I was so surprised when he 
went back, I thought really if any paper had 
got through this damn troop withdrawal 
(unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: That is kind of surprising that... 
PRESIDENT: Yeah, I think his, ... 
HALDEMAN: I think that's his concern. 
PRESIDENT: Well, that's nice.  Ehrlichman's point is 
well taken in one sense - and he says really 
right now we've got to get (unintelligible). 
You're going to get - you're going to get 
hung for it anyway, you might as well get 
the Goddamned hanging over with. 
HALDEMAN: You've (unintelligible) ahead of time.  That 
means to say that does that? 
PRESIDENT: This is going to be... 
HALDEMAN: Dean's theory is that you don't - you aren't 
necessarily going to get hung.  It depends 
upon what you defined by hang.  There's no 
question we're going to get smeared. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.
HALDEMAN: There's no question that they're going to 
keep building the innuendo that will lead 
into the White House and will be able to 
come to some - proof. 
PRESIDENT: Right. 
HALDEMAN: What they'll call proof - consider proof - 
on the basis that, that uh - oh, the line of 
reasoning they're using now, that Dwight 
Chapin wouldn't have done anything that I 
didn't know about it. 
PRESIDENT: That's right.  I understand. 
HALDEMAN: Or it might -- that wasn't in my orders and 
certainly Gordon Strachan did. 
PRESIDENT: That's right. 
HALDEMAN: Uh - that's only partly true, but it's a, 
it's a, sustainable assumption - but that 
part - we can live with it and I - I see all 
four of them.  Now, I'd like to go out and 
have us go out now and hit - if you take 
that part of the case and hit mine and 
admit.  Say, say it's absolutely true - I 
knew that Chapin was recruiting an old 
college friend of his to go out and run 
around doing Dick Tuck stuff, which is 
absolutely true, I did know.  I did not know 
the guy's name.  I did not know the guy.  I 
did not know what he was going to do.  I did 
not know what we were going to pay him.  I 
did know that Chapin was going to authorize 
some payment to him to cover his expenses 
and, uh, his basic income. 
PRESIDENT: Right. 
HALDEMAN: That he was going to work full time on this 
and was going to try to recruit other 
college type guys to do this kind of stuff. 
PRESIDENT: Intelligence work (unintelligible)? 
HALDEMAN: Not really intelligence.  'Cause that wasn't 
what was talked about.  See, he wasn't 
engaged in this - at least I don't think he 
was engaged in espionage.  He was engaged 
in, in... 
PRESIDENT: ... tricks.
HALDEMAN: Yeah, I think some of em got a little -- 
that's a euphemistic term for them -- some 
of em cause he did get a little far on the 
tricks.  But they talked about, when they 
talked about doing it, the kind of tricks 
that I said, for Christ's sake don't fool 
around with stuff like -- they were gonna 
cut cars, cut tires on press buses, you know 
and take the keys out of cars in motorcades 
and that sort of stuff.  I said that's 
ridiculous, it's childish and doesn't do us 
any good.  So I... 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: ... What does do us some good is to have a 
guy standing around with a sign saying 
"McGovern, what about your illegitimate 
daughter" or something.  I hope we never 
used that one. 
PRESIDENT: But, because we were ready to... 
HALDEMAN: Yeah.  (Unintelligible) but, uh, so I knew. 
They were getting a guy and Chapin did do it 
with, with my concurrence and Strachan was a 
friend of the guy's too.  I knew that.  That 
I have no problem with saying. 
PRESIDENT: I understand (unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: And, I don't think that hurts you. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: Just say I did that.  The problem is - can't 
the truth stop at the truth.  Which that 
does or does the innuendo - go so - come 
then so hard on top of it that you can't 
turn it off. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) it goes to the truth 
HALDEMAN: It goes to the Watergate or which - it seems 
to me, we ought to be able to turn off, but 
the problem is the price of turning it off 
may hurt the people on Watergate side.  At 
least, that's what they tell me.  What 
bothers me is that I still think I'm being 
had in a sense for being tarred in order to 
protect some other people. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  Yeah.
HALDEMAN: I think Chapin is being far worse tarred in 
order to protect other people 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  The people on the Watergate side 
unfortunately are also our friends. 
HALDEMAN: The people on the Watergate side are our 
friends and there is far more seriousness if 
there - this thing you can say was bad 
judgment on my part to let Chapin do this or 
- I can say it was bad judgment on Chapin's 
part to let the guy go as far as he did, or 
Chapin can say it was bad judgment on 
Segretti's part... 
PRESIDENT: Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: ...to do some of the things he did. 
PRESIDENT: That's right. 
HALDEMAN: That's, that's probably right.  All the way 
up to, to maybe bad judgment on my part, but 
on Watergate it isn't a question of bad 
judgment.  On Watergate it's a question and 
there it goes and, ultimately, it seems to 
me that's what they have got to focus on. 
And this - who was it that was teeing me 
that, uh, what - or convinced they're going 
to go after this - this is Ziegler's, 
Ziegler's theories based on the press club 
status -convinced that what they're after is 
Colson - on criminal - they think he's the 
highest guy they can get on criminal in the 
White House and Mitchell on the outside. 
Now, there ah the worst - it isn't the worst 
you can get to is damn had out there. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: Because if Mitchell was the authority. 
PRESIDENT: He's the Attorney General of the U.S. 
HALDEMAN: As Attorney General of the U.S. and... 
PRESIDENT: The President's campaign manager.  That's 
pretty goddamned bad.  That's damn near as 
bad as it is out here.  Do you agree with 
this? 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: ...problems
HALDEMAN: And their - if you have . 
PRESIDENT: protect them to protect them . 
Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: then you have to - then you start working 
your way back down that chain again and, and 
maybe you can't turn it off somewhere and 
that's what John Dean where he comes out 
every time we go around this circle. 
PRESIDENT: Yes, sir. 
HALDEMAN: Then you get to the thing with Segretti. 
Here is a potential... 
PRESIDENT: Segretti? 
HALDEMAN: ...a criminal violation on Segretti, too. 
PRESIDENT: On what - some mailing? Horse shit, that's 
so inconsequential. 
HALDEMAN: Okay.  But then, then, he was Chapin's agent 
so does that make Chapin criminally liable? 
Chapin was my employee so does that made me 
criminally liable? 
PRESIDENT: Is that a felony? 
HALDEMAN: No.  It's a misdemeanor. 
PRESIDENT: That's what I mean. 
HALDEMAN: It's a misdemeanor committed without our 
specific knowledge so I don't see how, how 
we're liable. 
PRESIDENT: Listen... campaigns, there's never a, that 
didn't have a campaign mailing without a 
disclaimer or, er 
HALDEMAN: That's right. 
PRESIDENT: ...mailing (unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: We had, we had the same thing in'460, uh '62 
in California - Democrats for Nixon - 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: The Dem. no - the Committee to preserve the, 
the Committed to Preserve the Democratic 
Party in California.  The thing that crazy 
woman got us into - Naomi Baxter. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  Yeah.  You see the point is that it,
it isn't just Bob (unintelligible) it is a 
question - (unintelligible) of - big fish, 
as we mentioned, Colson I knew was going to 
be hard to prove.  I don't - I don't see - I 
think unless Colson's lying to Steve I mean 
Dean, was questioning him, Dean does not 
believe that Colson - that they 
(unintelligible) Colson. 
HALDEMAN: I don't either.  And as I've told you I've 
been convinced all along Colson doesn't - 
did not know. 
PRESIDENT: About this? 
HALDEMAN: About the Watergate 
PRESIDENT: I don't think he did - except... 
HALDEMAN: Yep - I don't think he did, either 
PRESIDENT: ...(Unintelligible) was saying that uh, of 
course, this is Magruder's argument, 
apparently he's made it too, Colson was 
insisting on getting the information but I 
don't know why - I don't know what it was 
all a hoax, why he would be involved if they 
were going to have a -demonstration in San 
Diego or - not was something I couldn't 
quite figure out.  Know what I mean? But he 
was involved in, in too many things. - 
HALDEMAN: But Mitchell as you know, was very much 
involved in the demonstration in San Diego - 
remember Mitchell came in - very concerned 
about changing the convention site because 
he was afraid of in-ability to control San 
Diego. 
PRESIDENT: Oh, yeah.  (Pause) Well, there a lot of bad 
breaks they're in. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: We got a bad break with the Judge, for 
example... 
HALDEMAN: Monumental bad breaks and a string of 'em - 
one leading to another. 
PRESIDENT: This judge, that 
HALDEMAN: Starting with the just incredible thing of 
one was "Time Magazine" this week started
off a -thing - one lousy part-time night 
guard at the Watergate who happened to 
notice the tape on the, on the locks on the 
doors.  If he hadn't seen them - the thing 
probably would have never busted.  If you 
hadn't had Watergate - you wouldn't have had 
Segretti.  You wouldn't have had any of that 
stuff. 
(Pause) 
Wouldn't have had all that stuff on the 
contributors. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) the people that are yelling 
about us about, about the old establishment, 
the Times, (unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: Well, let's see. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligble) 
HALDEMAN: The one, one niche that they,and I don't 
think they see here, where they're gonna get 
but they see there's still an opportunity 
and they, they're gonna grind away 'til they 
either ex- haust it or - or get to 
something. 
 (Pause) 
PRESIDENT: In a sense - Committee get the hearings over 
in a hurry - the theory that Baker had, 
which of course I rejected it, was 
incredible, Was to get, give us, get, get 
all of 'em and everybody and all then there 
(unintelligible) testify and he said choke 
the goddamned thing for a week and after 
that the people will be bored to death. 
Well that makes sense provided... 
HALDEMAN: it doesn't go anywhere. 
PRESIDENT: No -- Provided YOU can rim the risk of 
having your people go out there and be asked 
a lot of tough questions by a smart 
goddamned lawyer.  So, I knew that it's 
probably, we would be better advised to 
stick.  The guy that most wants to stick to 
is Colson.  Obviously, he's, I don't think 
he wants to be questioned and I can see why 
be-cause of other involvements 
(unintelligible).  So, therefore .
HALDEMAN: He's the only one who doesn't want to be? 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) fight for executive 
privilege.  Obviously, no we're just not 
going to allow it mainly because we just 
can't, can't allow that sort of thing to 
come out (unintelligible).  But then what 
you have to do is to - you gotta fight it 
through the goddamned courts 
(unintelligible) for a long time.  You've 
got the story of cover- up, that's, that's 
what's involved. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: Right. 
HALDEMAN: And that's bad.  That - that's really worse 
than the... 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: It isn't really worse - it isn't worse than 
John Mitchell going to jail - for either 
perjury or complicity. 
PRESIDENT: No, no, no, I've, no, I've balanced that up, 
too.  But you see what they're really after 
he'll take cover-up 'til hell freezes over. 
You know what I mean? Because, uh,... 
HALDEMAN: If that's really where it goes and I guess 
it is. 
PRESIDENT: But John, but you can't figure Magruder did it 
by himself.  That's what I, I just don't 
believe Magruder's done much as, -- a 
competent operator.  (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: I'm not sure if that's, I'm not sure. 
PRESIDENT: Sounds to me like oh - see that's the only 
thing that I think they must really think. 
The in-vestigator thinks, Christ, Magruder 
would - a, I mean, a decision like that 
wouldn't be made by Magruder.  Of course, he 
was managing manager.  Yeah, I think... 
HALDEMAN: I think, I think it's - now, I think Dean 
thinks it's possible that it was... 
PRESIDENT: ...that Magruder may have stumbled onto 
some-thing, because what do you say? 
HALDEMAN: Well, done the specific thing on his own
within a broad authority that he misinter- 
preted - 
PRESIDENT: In other words -- 
HALDEMAN: In other words Mitchell was clearly aware 
and fully aware of the Liddy intelligence 
operation.  No question about that. 
PRESIDENT: But maybe not of the specific... 
HALDEMAN: But maybe not of the specific act and, and 
it would be perfectly... 
PRESIDENT: Magruder was aware of the act. 
HALDEMAN: Well, he says that he wasn't, in court. 
pause) And, you can even go to that step and 
buy it. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: Which is that Liddy was, was doing it and 
on, on, unr under the broad authority but 
then, you get down to will Liddy take the 
heath 
PRESIDENT: Well, let me say this - but coming back to 
the business about trying to get everybody 
up there and all the rest - we've got to 
remember that what, what could be involved. 
Let' s see.  Let' s see the whole view going 
up.  (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: It wasn't me and I don't think it has to be 
Dwight, but Dwight Dwight I think may have 
to recant some of these (unintelligible) or 
explain them. 
PRESIDENT: Yes-, that's... 
HALDEMAN: ...some of what I said earlier. 
PRESIDENT: That' s right.  Well - uh - what I meant 
then --might be an advantage.  Let' s see. 
Oh, it' s what, I mean, uh, maybe my 
reasoning is fallacious, but our real 
concern is Mitchell .  (Noise) Maybe they're 
going to get him anyway . 
HALDEMAN: Well, John, at least the last I got into it 
in any detail, John Dean didn' t think so. 
PRESIDENT: They going to get -- that right? 
HALDEMAN: See, John Dean' s whole approach as I
understand it this is when we went through 
it out in California for two full days - ( 
clears throat) what came out is his whole 
premise - his, his basic approach to this is 
one of containment - keep it in this box and 
he thinks he can.  And that box - goes on 
the theory that Liddy did it without 
authority from above and Liddy's been 
convicted of doing it.  Liddy was the 
responsible guy at the campaign 
organization.  He ' s the highest guy that 
they've got.  The other people were 
employees of Liddy's. 
PRESIDENT: Well, that' s the way the case stands at the 
moment.  Course the judge blasted the hell 
out of that Friday.  (Unintelligible) didn ' 
t get cooperation and so forth. 
HALDEMAN: Liddy apparently is a little bit nuts and a 
masochist and apparently he wants to, looks 
to the martyrdom of doing this.  He kind of 
likes it.  And that's-true.  Maybe that's 
where it'll stay.  That's Dean's - that's 
his hope.  That's what he, he's frantically 
trying to keep -- not frantically, 
persistently trying to keep... 
PRESIDENT: Liddy'll appeal it 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) strings in 
PRESIDENT: Liddy'll appeal it in court.  Liddy should 
beat it.  Son-of-a-bitch, they're two of 
them (unintelligible) Hunt's not it. 
HALDEMAN: Hunt went and pleaded guilty - they all 
Eibad guilty and 
PRESIDENT: ...he's appealing. 
HALDEMAN: Liddy and McCord didn't plead guilty. 
PRESIDENT: Liddy's appealing that 
HALDEMAN: Liddy's appealing but Liddy's not appealing 
on uh, merit, on the merits.  He's appealing 
on the, on the errors.  Liddy's going for 
errors.  There you've got anoth- another 
problem - Liddy's a lawyer, who thinks he's 
smarter than the judge and the court, and 
the court prosecutor, which every lawyer 
seems to have to convince himself of.
Liddy's game is purely, as I understand it, 
his appeal game is purely on errors. 
PRESIDENT: Oh, sure. 
HALDEMAN: Then he's apparently got some...At least some possibilitie 
PRESIDENT: ...Sirica? 
HALDEMAN: Has areas of potential pot challenge some 
errors. 
PRESIDENT: Well, coming back to this, I think Mat the 
uh, is the, is the coming free of the White 
House people. 
HALDEMAN: That doesn't impair that other case at all. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) mention (unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: Because the containment theory works and I 
don't see what danger is in our going out- 
because we don't have anything to say.  The 
people you're protecting by executive 
privilege -- let's face it are - oh Jesus, 
you got Ehrlichman - I don't know about 
Ehrlichman.  John knows a hell of a lot. 
PRESIDENT: He does know a hell of a lot but not about 
this case. 
HALDEMAN: Doesn't he? Okay. 
PRESIDENT: not about Watergate.  He doesn't know a 
goddamned thing, unfortunately. 
HALDEMAN: I don't think he -- (unintelligible). 
PRESIDENT: He ran the other thing.  He ran, you 
know,... 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: you know the stuff about... 
HALDEMAN: Well, can they expand to that - if they 
can't what does he do? Sure, he can, there's 
no rules of evidence up there by charter is 
to cover all the campaign activity. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible).  Fine - fine - but I can't 
- no - no. 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible). Ellsberg? 
PRESIDENT: I can't think now -- no, no -- 
HALDEMAN: Teddy Kennedy? (Unintelligible).
PRESIDENT: Uh, I don't like it.  That's gonna be awful 
hard to get to.  Thank God - it's in pretty 
good shape, 
Pause) 
ow I don't think we could now however, I 
don't think we can shift our ground, and 
cave on that idea for privilege sake, but I 
think we have to find a way to make 
statements.  They will not accept statements 
until they are free to (unintelligible), 
that's the theory I'm working on, I'm 
working on with them now and Dean and Moore 
are trying to see -can they save 
(unintelligible) and, of course, every-thing 
they say would raise additional questions. 
But so be it. 
HALDEMAN: Well,... 
PRESIDENT: It's better to have statements... 
HALDEMAN: All right, all right.  Look, we've agreed to 
answer written interrogation, right, huh? 
PRESIDENT: Right. 
HALDEMAN: I, for instance, I have to, have to do that, 
Chapin has to do that. 
PRESIDENT: Everybody. 
HALDEMAN: We've all agreed to do that. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: Okay, but why the hell don't we do 
(unintelligible)- instead, instead of, if 
they submit it, why don't we sit down and do 
our statement right now. 
PRESIDENT: That's a nice suggestion. 
HALDEMAN: Why doesn't Dean ask me the questions that, 
that the Committee will ask me? Why don't I 
write my answers down? Why doesn't Chapin 
write his? Why don't we give those to the 
"Washington Star" and let them print the 
goddamned things in total tomorrow morning. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: What's wrong with... 
PRESIDENT: try to-see why couldn't each of you make a
sworn statement.  (Unintelligible) open too 
many doors. 
HALDEMAN: Really? 
PRESIDENT: Dean, Dean's the expert here. 
(Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: Well, why don't we make them and see.  I 
mean with-out putting em out.  Why don't we 
take the step we're doing.  We're gonna have 
to apparently anyway and so he says we're 
gonna open too many doors.  Aren't they 
gonna open? We've already agreed to do that 
anyway. 
PRESIDENT: Except that they'll - you see his point is - 
well, anyway let's try it - I don't mind, 
it's worth trying.  His point is we've got - 
that they will never take the statements so 
it's never going to happen.  That's the 
other course -that's the problem.  They're 
never gonna take written statements. 
HALDEMAN: You mean, they won't accept them at all. 
PRESIDENT: No, no.  But that's all right.  You see my 
point is the way we end up is - okay, we 
refuse to go up but they will have a - they 
will say we will not accept that 
(unintelligible) try to get a sub-poena, and 
we will move to quash - and we'll have a 
court test.  All right, that's where it'll 
stand -so forth, fight that out in the 
courts and try to make a case with the other 
witnesses - waiting for the court test.  Of 
course (unintelligible) the other way to do 
it is to -- so that, that, that, rules that 
out -- and you, have got no statements at 
all.  Now the problem with that confronts me 
with me with is - is, that it appears that I 
covered up... the White House people.  I 
won't let that statement, so - what that's 
what I told Dean and the rest, I said, "Why 
don't you make up or why don't you just put 
out a statement?"' Any kind of a statement. 
Of course, I said make it as general as 
possible but just so somebody can say that 
the President - that a state-ment has been 
made through the President, upon which he 
has based his statement to the effect that
he has confidence in his staff.  See I mean 
- I mean it looks now that I am just doing 
that as a, as a thumb your nose, screw-off. 
HALDEMAN: Except that everybody seems to accept the 
fact that there is a Dean report to the 
President on the basis of which the 
President said that. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  Maybe. 
HALDEMAN: And we've now established that - as I 
understand it, that Dean - no I guess we 
haven't, but we can, that it was an oral 
report, not a written report. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  (unintelligible) investigation and so 
forth, but that needs - you see by having a 
statement, statement prepared, statement or 
statements prepared which are delivered to 
the Committee, preferably I think delivery 
(unintelligible), that's what he's working 
on now - delivery to Eastland perhaps and 
Eastland then puts it out, and the purpose 
of answering all the recent charges - the 
most recent charges not everything - 
HALDEMAN: The Dean charges. 
PRESIDENT: The Dean charges.  And Ziegler said, but, 
"that raises too many questions - new 
questions" so, ah, then John Ehrlichman says 
that those questions (Laughs) are gonna be 
raised anyway. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: That's my point of view that maybe they're 
gonna be raised anyway. 
HALDEMAN: I don't understand what Ron means, but maybe 
he's right.  I don't think... 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: I've spent more time on this than, than 
anybody really and I don't know any 
questions that aren't already out. 
PRESIDENT: But they - I don't quite know either, that's 
my point.  I don't know what the hell other 
questions... 
HALDEMAN: Well, I think, I think if Ron says it'll
raise new questions, the burden of proof is 
on him.  What are they? 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  I see. 
HALDEMAN: I don't - I'm not so sure... 
PRESIDENT: He's already (unintelligible) pepole 
(unintelligible) something to do.  Mostly 
has to do with Segretti and Chapin, that's 
the thing. 
HALDEMAN: Well, I don't understand why we can't run 
that one out... 
PRESIDENT: I, I personally think that you've gotta, 
you've got a bunch - Segretti and Chapin. 
We just gotta let that one hang out... 
HALDEMAN: Here's the first thing ... 
PRESIDENT: ... I really do. 
HALDE MAN: ... I don't - in the first place, the guy 
that knows the most about the Segretti thing 
is Segretti. 
PRESIDENT: That's right. 
HALDEMAN: The guy that knows the next - well, the guy 
that knows the next most is Chapin, who is 
protected.  The guy that knows the next most 
after that is Strachan, who's protected. 
The guy that knows the next most after that 
is Kalmbach, who's not protected.  And the 
guy that knows the next most is me, who's 
protected and that's the end of the Segretti 
story I think. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  So put it out. 
HALDEMAN: Okay.  The point thereis that the guy that 
knows the most is Segretti.  He is not 
protected. 
PRESIDENT: So, he's gonna get questioned? 
HALDEMAN: So, he's gonna get questioned.  Now, I've 
heard Segretti's - Dean has a two hour tape 
where he interrogated Segretti and went 
through the whole damn thing and, maybe I'm 
stupid, but I listened to the whole tape and 
for my dough I'd just as soon play it out on 
the radio tonight on CBS and let the world 
hear it.
PRESIDENT: That's my feeling. 
HALDEMAN: Because what it says to me is, is not nearly 
as bad as what I would venture 90% of the 
people in this country think happened. 
PRESIDENT: Sure. 
HALDEMAN: But it does confirm Dwight Chapin recruited 
him and he gives him the details - he had 
him to dinner at his house and he had - 
Gordon Strachan was there.  But, what the 
hell, he went to school with Dwight Chapin. 
PRESIDENT: Already, Bob, that's already put out anyway. 
HALDEMAN: That's right. 
PRESIDENT: That's already been put out- 
HALDEMAN: That's right. 
PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible) recruited.  What the hell 
(unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: Now Ron's worried because that, that make - 
'cause we denied - we didn't deny - Ron and 
Ron had covered that. 
PRESIDENT: Who denied it? I thought 
HALDEMAN: The press, that Ron, that Ron, see we denied 
the Chapin story in the Post, but he denied 
it on the basis that it was based on 
hearsay... 
PRESIDENT: Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: ... and was fundamentally incorrect. 
PRESIDENT: Fundamentally... 
HALDEMAN: And it was. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah - fundamentally - yeah. 
HALDEMAN: We didn't deny any specifics in it. 
PRESIDENT: That of course, I think is what we should 
say.  (Unintelligible) fundamentally 
incorrect - fundamentally. 
HALDEMAN: All we can - let's go back and make the case 
on that. 
PRESIDENT: Say that the Post story said this, this, 
this, and this, and I think that's the way 
you want to handle that.  For example, the
Post story said this, this and this - this 
is incorrect.  Why? Now what is correct is 
this, this, this and this.  That's the way 
you ought to handle that so as to get us off 
the hook on that.  So the Press Secretary 
did not lie.  Well, my feeling is that - 
taking a - the, the, the, the, uh, we're not 
gonna, we're (unintelligible) That's all I'm 
after.  My feeling is that if the facts are 
gonna come out in all this period of time, I 
would rather have us get them out to the 
extent we can, in a forthcoming way so that 
(unintelligible) 
HALDEMAN: I don't know, I don't know if Dean's filled 
you in on this stuff.  I know another thing 
that worries him.  This - I'd forgotten 
about, that it leads to, cause he's afraid 
that Sloan... 
PRESIDENT: Sloan? 
HALDEMAN: He's afraid that, that you know, he gets 
Sloan up that, that he's... 
PRESIDENT: Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: ...that, that he's got to say something 
because there's another fact that's never 
come out.  They've never tracked down but 
they could.  But and again it appears as 
terrible, but it isn't at all and the facts 
on it are, are worked out fine.  But there 
was $350,000 in cash transferred out of the 
campaign fund over to a separate holder and 
it was under Strachan's control.  It was, in 
a sense, trans-, in essence, transferred to 
me.  What that was supposed to have been, if 
you recall, was $2,000,000, which we, way 
back, had told Stans we wanted -it was that 
leftover cash that we wanted set aside. 
PRESIDENT: Oh yeah. 
HALDEMAN: Before reporting and all that - just so it 
was there as a reserve fund. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: Well, it got boiled down because of 
reporting problems and everything else to 
where we only moved 350,000.  The 350,000 in
cash was moved. 
PRESIDENT: And that was used for polls? 
HALDEMAN: That was - the purpose of that was to be for 
polls and everything else.  It was not used 
for polls or anything else.  It wasn't used. 
And that has been transferred back to the 
re-election committee.  It was transferred 
after the, after the election the cc was 
moved back over... 
PRESIDENT: Uh, I see 
HALDEMAN: ...to, uh, uh, Mardian, not Mardian - uh, 
LaRue, Fred LaRue and his back up.  So, the 
money was not spent. 
PRESIDENT: What's the difference then? 
HALDEMAN: Okay.  The difference is that, that 
establishes, if they want to call it that, 
you can, you look at the yellow journals and 
a secret fund that Haldeman controlled, you 
could say, which I guess I did.  The 
question of who controlled it never arose 
because it was never used.  Physically 
Strachan -- actually Strachan did.  That 
some other guy did.  I don't even know who 
had it - some, some guy I don't even know 
put the stuff in a box, in a safe out in 
Virginia somewhere, I understand.  That's 
where it was held. 
PRESIDENT: Well, (unintelligible) boxes in every 
campaign. 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) Not that it worries me, not 
that it's ever worried me and I - and maybe 
there's more to it, than I, there's 
something to it than I've found. 
PRESIDENT: Sure (Unintelligible) (Laughs) 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) sir.  (Unintelligible) 
PRESIDENT: Can you sort of, I don't know.  Of course, 
none of us really knows what to do here 
because of... 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) each, each of us filing a 
state-ment now that's as complete as we can 
make it...  I need to, each of us filing a 
statement now - as complete as we can make
it - 
PRESIDENT: That's right.  That's the way. 
HALDEMAN: ...but that it is not a statement under, uh 
- ... 
PRESIDENT: ...duress... 
HALDEMAN: ...under questioning that, that, uh, says 
there is nothing else to say.  I wouldn't 
say it. 
PRESIDENT: No. 
HALDEMAN: I wouldn't say that this is the whole truth. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah. 
HALDEMAN: I'd say in relation to the charges... 
PRESIDENT: Yeah, uh - very good. 
HALDEMAN: ...that have been raised 
PRESIDENT: charges that have been made and then I'll be 
glad to answer any other questions. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: Yeah.  I would say, is there any other? I 
think you've got to abandon the disclaimer 
at the end. 
HALDEMAN: Yeah. 
PRESIDENT: Now if other questions are raised I'll be 
glad to answer them.  See what I mean? Sure. 
Now, that way I, I don't see how's it's, uh, 
and if they raise the other questions, then 
you answer them. 
HALDEMAN: I would be concerned about putting out a 
statement that purported to be complete 
because I don't -I'm not sure if -... 
PRESIDENT: Never, never, never.  You never do that for 
another reason is that, then, from then on 
they'd say (unintelligible). 
HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) 
PRESIDENT: No, you could say on the matters of a 
specifically raised (unintelligible) say 
this -- Any further questions? 
(Unintelligible) 
(Voices fade)